Magnus P

18 May 2022 - 15:51

Headline

Hi Claus,

Many thanks for your assistance on this.

Martin is definitely Vögt (Martin Friedrich Christopher Vögt) but appears in subsequent records as Martin Fridrich Vogt.

The widow and Stettin (Szczecin) reference, however, is a gem.

Clara's origins remain unclear.

Claus Reinholdt

21 May 2022 - 19:07:52

Svar: Svar: Christian Peter Wilhelm Vogt

Hi Magnus,

I read their marriage like this:
Wittwer Martin Fridrich Vögt, Kleinschmiedmeister, gebürtig aus Demnien in Pommern, 36 Jahr alt, Ulkenstraße No. 140, und Jungfrau Clara Tamp, 26 Jahr, verstorbenen Lakenfabrikörs Tochter, wohnt beym Bräutigam. Cautionisten: 1, W. G. Wille, Tischlermeister, Akademiestraße 283. 2, A. Erichsen, Bötchermeister, große Strandstraße No. 102. Verheiratet Freytag d. 2" Junii 1820. In der Kirche aufgebothen d. 28" Maii 1820. Der Kämmerreyschein ist eingeliefert No. 146.

Demnien in Pomerania must be Demmin close to Loitz in present day Germany (close to the Polish border).

From the book:
THE WEEKLY POLITICAL REVIEW OF HENRY REDHEAD YORKE. VOL. II. From January to June 1807. Page 320.
My column took possession of Loitz on the 2d of April, and the same day, baron D'Armfeldt's column entered Greiswald, where it took six officers, and a great number of French soldiers fell into our hands, as well as the enemy's hospital, where we recovered all the Swedish soldiers who had been wounded and taken prisoners in the action of the 14th March. Above 1000 muskets, 200 brace of pistols, and considerable magazies, were found there. On the 3d April, I entered Demnien with my column, and I sent my light troops in pursuit of the enemy towards Mecklenburg. The garrison of Demnien were all made prisoners after a feeble resistance.

And Clara Tamp/Tammp is a deceased paint dealer's/manufacturer's daughter from Christianshavn (living with the groom at the time of their marriage). I already did a quick check of Vor Frelsers church book, but I couldn't find her.

Claus Reinholdt

21 May 2022 - 19:07:12

Svar: Svar: Christian Peter Wilhelm Vogt

Kämmerreyschein (Kämmereischein), Danish Kæmnerseddel, is probably the same as Cautionsschein (mentioned in the last line of the "Lysning", which I didn't transcribe). It reads something like: Der Schiftebrief (probate letter) ist vom L. D. Kochen unterschrieben. Der Cautionsschein ist eingeliefert. It could also be two totally different notes, one about the probate and one about the guarantors at the betrothal.

Magnus P

21 May 2022 - 14:53:26

Svar: Svar: Christian Peter Wilhelm Vogt

Brilliant!

So Martin was born in either Stettin or Demnien (Demmin) in Pommern. I've had no luck in Stettin so far from either the state archives or the files in Berlin although there are some Vogt names later floating around with many emigrating to the US.

I will pursue the Demmin lead.

Is it possible that Clara Tamp could be her first and middle name used only since I have found no Tamp/Tammp/Fam/Famp family reference anywhere let alone in Christianshavn?

Thank you.

M

 

Claus Reinholdt

21 May 2022 - 18:59:04

Svar: Svar: Christian Peter Wilhelm Vogt

Clara Vogt, widow after Klejnsmedesvend (Mester) Vogt, Vognmagergade nr. 68, 1st back house floor, died at Frederik's Hospital May 17th, 1838, aged 47. She died of typhus.
Det Kgl. Frederiks Hospitalskirke
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=425330#425330,78394496
No. 64. Død den 17de Mai 1838. Begravet den 24de Mai 1838. Clara Vogt. Enke efter (givt med) Kleinsmedsvend (Mester) Vogt, Vognmagergaden No. 68, 1. Bagsal. 47 Aar. Anmærkninger: Død af Typhus, Attest fremlagt.

She was buried in Trinitatis parish.
Trinitatis Sogn
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=379988#379988,73903583
No. 187. Død den 17de Maii 1838. Begravet den 24de Maii 1838. Clara Vogt. Kleinsmed Vogts Enke fra Fr. Hospital. 47 Aar. Anmærkninger: Frie Jord af Typhus.

---

I found a Clara Tamm, born September 23rd, 1789, baptized October 11th, 1789 (bottom right):
Sankt Ansgar Kirke
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=352665#352665,70289224
LIBER BAPTIZATORUM a Missionariis Romano-Catholicis Hafniæ ab anno 1700 ad annum 1830.

1789
October.
11mâ. Baptizata est Clara nata 23tiâ Septembris filia legitima Petri Tamm et Elisabethæ Schmied. Matrina fuit Domina Schmied mater puerperæ.

1789
October 11th.
Is baptized Clara, born September 23rd, a legitimate daughter of Peter Tamm and Elisabeth Schmied. The godmother was mrs. Schmied, the mother's mother.

The p in Tammp could easily be silent. Think of Thompson/Thomson, Hampstead/Hamstead, thumb, redemption (from Latin), consumption (from Latin). The same is true about the word Consumption (modern Konsumption) in Danish. Silent b and p after m has been around since at least the viking age. Just think about the mysterious word "kubl" on the large Jelling stone, normally translated as "kumler" (kumbler), thought to be ornaments.

Claus Reinholdt

29 May 2022 - 22:40:25

Svar: Svar: Christian Peter Wilhelm Vogt

Eleonora Tamm, born April 1st, 1783, baptized April 13th, 1783, daughter of Peter Johan Tamm and Marie Elisabeth Schmidt.
Sankt Ansgar Kirke
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=352665#352665,70289201
1783
Aprilis.
13tiâ. Baptizata est Eleonora, nata 1mâ Aprilis, filia legitima Petri Ioannis Tamm et Mariæ Elisabethæ Schmidt, Conjugum Catholicorum. Patrini fuerunt Dominus et Domina Gönner, Astitit Gabriela Bonfils et Dominus Schmidt.

Maria Elisabeth Damm, born November 6th, 1784, baptized November 21st, 1784, daughter of Peter Damm and Elisabeth Schmidt.
Sankt Ansgar Kirke
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=352665#352665,70289208
1784
November.
21mâ. Baptizata est Maria Elisabeth nata 6ta hujus filia legitima Petri Damm et Elisabethæ Schmidtinn, conjugum Catholicorum. Patrinus fuit Henricus Schmidt, Asstitit Clara Schmittinn. Ita testor Iosephus Schürmann pro tempore præses Missionis, manu propria.

Johan Peter Tamm, born July 4th, 1786, baptized July 16th, 1786, son of Peter Johan Tamm and Marie Elisabeth Schmied.
Sankt Ansgar Kirke
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=352665#352665,70289215
1786
Julius.
16tâ. Baptizatus est Ioannes Petrus, natus 4 hujus, filius legitimus Petri Ioannis Tamm et Mariæ Elisabethæ Schmied, conjugum Catholicorum. Patrinus fuit Henricus Schmied, Astiterunt D. Schmied, D. D. Blankensteiner, Ignatius Schüerer, V. Schmied, etc.

Folketælling 1ste Juli 1787
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=1780#1780,70439
Christianshavns Kvarter
Dronningensgade No. 202
Peter Johan Thamm, Huusbonde, 30, begge i 1' Egteskab, Klæde-Fabriquuer.
Marie Elisabeth Schmidt, hans Kone, 25, begge i 1' Egteskab.
Eleonora Thamm, deres ægte Datter, 4, ugivt.
Elisabeth Marie Thamm, ligeledes, 3, ugivt.
Peter Johan Thamm, deres ægte Søn, 1, ugivt.
Bodil Lars Datter, Tieniste-Pige, 30, ugivt.
Ane Marie Ludwigs, 54, Enke efter 1' Egteskab, Spinderske.
Ane Cathrine, 25, ugivt, ligeledes.
Regine Berg, 40, Enke efter 2' Egteskab, ligeledes.
Ane Kirstine Berg, hendes ægte Datter af 2' Egteskab, 12, ugivt.
Cathrine Berg, hendes ægte Datter af 2' Egteskab, 8, ugivt.
Daniel Berg, hendes ægte Søn af 2' Egteskab, 10, ugivt.

Census July 1st, 1787
https://www.danishfamilysearch.dk/cid436971
Christianshavn's district
Dronningensgade nr. 202
Peter Johan Thamm, husband (id est man of the house), 30, both in 1st marriage, clothing manufacturer.
Marie Elisabeth Schmidt, his wife, 25, both in 1st marriage.
Eleonora Thamm, their legitimate daughter, 4, unmarried.
Elisabeth Marie Thamm, their legitimate daughter, 3, unmarried.
Peter Johan Thamm, their legitimate son, 1, unmarried.
Bodil Larsdatter, servant, 30, unmarried.
Ane Marie Ludwig's, 54, widow after 1st marriage, spinner.
Ane Cathrine, 25, unmarried, spinner.
Regine Berg, 40, widow after 2nd marriage, spinner.
Ane Kirstine Berg, her legitimate daughter of 2nd marriage, 12, unmarried.
Cathrine Berg, her legitimate daughter of 2nd marriage, 8, unmarried.
Daniel Berg, her legitimate son of 2nd marriage, 10, unmarried.

Henrik Casimir Tamm, born February 12th, 1788, baptized February 28th, 1788, son of Peter Tamm and Elisabeth Schmied.
Sankt Ansgar Kirke
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=352665#352665,70289221
1788
Februarius.
28vâ. Baptizatus est Henricus Casimirus natus 12mâ hujus filius legitimus Petri Tamm et Elisabethæ Schmied conjugum Catholicorum. Patrinus fuit Henricus Bonfils, Astiterunt D. Antonetta Bonfils et Domina Schüerer et Annon-

Anna Christina Tamm, born December 20th, 1793, baptized January 6th, 1794, daughter of Peter Tamm and Elisabeth Schmied.
Sankt Ansgar Kirke
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=352665#352665,70289238
1794
Ianuarius.
6tâ. Baptizata est Anna Christina nata 20mâ Decembris filia legitima Petri Tamm et Elisabethæ Schmied conjugum Catholicorum. Matrina fuit Domina Schmidtin, Astiterunt Henricus Schmied, D. D. Steinbach, Tamm et V. Schmied.

Anna Christina Tamm, buried June 9th, 1794, ½ year old, died of a stroke, buried in the best cemetery.
Frederiks Tyske Kirke, København
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=149606#149606,24748238
1794
No. 7. Ein Mädchen.
9 Juni, Anna Christina Tamm, ½ Jahr alt, am Schlage gestorben, auf dem besten Kirchhof begraben.
Für die Erde bezahlt... 3 Reichsthaler 2 Mark.
An die Schule... 3 Mark.

Anna Christina Tamm, born March 14th, 1795, baptized April 6th, 1795, daughter of Peter Johan Tamm and Marie Elisabeth Schmied.
Sankt Ansgar Kirke
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=352665#352665,70289242
1795
Aprilis.
6tâ. Baptizata est Anna Christina nata 14tâ Martii filia legitima Petri Ioannis Tamm et Mariæ Elisabethæ Schmied conjugum Catholicorum. Matrina fuit Domina Schmied, Astiterunt D. de Mertz a Secretis Legationis Cæsareæ et

Maria Magdalena Tamm, born February 17th, 1797, baptized February 26th, 1797, daughter of Peter Tamm and Marie Elisabeth Schmid.
Sankt Ansgar Kirke
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=352665#352665,70289250
1797
Februarius.
26tâ. Baptizata est Maria Magdalena nata 17mâ hujus filia legitima Petri Tamm et Mariæ Elisabethæ Schmid conjugum Catholicorum. Patrini fuerunt Dominus et Domina Steinbach.

Anna Christine Tamm, buried August 1st, 1798, 3½ year old, died of smallpox, buried in the best cemetery.
Frederiks Tyske Kirke, København
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=149606#149606,24748250
1798
No. 23. Ein Mädchen.
Den 1ste August, Anna Christine Tamm, 3½ Jahr alt, an den Blattern gestorben, auf dem besten Kirchhof begraben.
Erde... 3 Reichsthaler 2 Mark.
Schule... 3 Mark.

Folketælling 1ste Februar 1801
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=27481#27481,2921602
Christianshavns Kvarter, 11te Afdeling
Lille Amagergade No. 341
Peter Tamm, Husbonde, 44, begge i 1ste Egteskab, Klæde-Fabriqvør.
Marie Schmidt, hans Kone, 42, begge i 1ste Egteskab.
Leonora, deres Barn, 16, ugift.
Peter Johann, deres Barn, 15, ugift.
Klara, deres Barn, 12 ugift.
Marie Magdalene, deres Barn, 4, ugift.
Fredrich Arentz, Pleye-Barn, 11.

Census February 1st, 1801
https://www.danishfamilysearch.dk/cid1060769
Christianshavn's district, 11th section
Lille Amagergade nr. 341
Peter Tamm, husband (id est man of the house), 44, both in 1st marriage, clothing manufacturer.
Marie Schmidt, his wife, 42, both in 1st marriage.
Leonora, their child, 16, unmarried.
Peter Johann, their child, 15, unmarried.
Klara, their child, 12, unmarried.
Marie Magdalene, their child, 4, unmarried.
Fredrich Arentz, foster child, 11.

Claus Reinholdt

25 May 2022 - 02:10:56

Svar: Svar: Christian Peter Wilhelm Vogt

København Vor Frue Sogn
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=492928#492928,87256435
1808
Den 30 September indskreven til Kirke-Copulation: Ungkarl Martin Fred. Christoffer Vogt, Smedesvend, og Pigen Anne Hansdatter i Stormgade 200. Forloverne, for ham: Kleinsmedmester Burchard von Würden, Stormgade 200, og for hende: Snedkermester Frederich Wilms, nye Kongensgade bag Slottet 227, indestode ved Hænders Underskrift for Vielsens Lovlighed. Borckhart von Würden. Friederich Wilms.
Copuleret 19 October.

København Vor Frue Sogn
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=158942#158942,26711354
1808
October
Den 19e. Ungkarl Martin Fridrich Christopher Vogt, Kleinsmedsvend, og Pige Anne Hansdatter copuleret i Kirken.

Sankt Petri Tyske Kirke
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=379938#379938,73889591
No. 16. Gestorben den 23" Martii 1824. Begraben den 30" Martii 1824. Martin Fridrich Vogt. Kleinschmiedmeister in der Holmsstraße No. 40. 40 Jahr. Innerliche Schwäche.

Magnus P

23 May 2022 - 00:11:29

Svar: Svar: Christian Peter Wilhelm Vogt

Why would he marry at Vor Frue Kirke (?) in 1808, but have another 3 weddings the German church (St Petri)?

Seems odd especially if he arrived german-speaking from Demmin or Stettin

Claus Reinholdt

23 May 2022 - 16:54:52

Svar: Svar: Christian Peter Wilhelm Vogt

Stormgade belongs to Vor Frue church district. It could also be that Anne Hansdatter is from Vor Frue church district, since it is normal that the man goes to the woman's home district (or where her parents/family live) to get married. It must be the same person because here he is called Ungkarl (unmarried man), and in the other records he is called Wittwer (widower).

I found a few more of Peter Johan Tamm's and Marie Elisabeth Schmidt's children:

Johan Henrik Damm, born April 8th, 1780, baptized April 10th, 1780, son of Peter Damm and Elisabeth Damm, born Schmidt.
Sankt Ansgar Kirke
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=352665#352665,70289189
1780
Anno 1780 die 10mâ Aprilis baptizavi Ioannem Henricum Damm, natum 8vâ ejusdem mensis, filium legitimum Petri Damm et Elisabethæ Damm, natæ Schmidtinn, Conjugum Catholicorum. Patrinus fuit Henricus Schmidt, Matrina Clara Schmidtinn.
                    Georgius Ant. Hoelscher, manu propria.

Clara Damm, born October 15th, 1781, baptized October 18th, 1781, daughter of Peter Damm and Elisabeth Schmidt.
Sankt Ansgar Kirke.
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=352665#352665,70289194
1781
Eodem Anno die 18vâ Octobris baptizavi Claram Damm, natam 15tâ ejusdem, filiam legitimam Petri Damm et Elisabethæ Schmidtinn. Patrinus fuit Henricus Schmidt, Matrina Clara Schmidtinn, adstiterunt Franciscus Gönner et Maria Schmidtinn.
                    Georgius Hoelscher.

I also posted an answer in the other thread.